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Leather slappers or blackjacks inches as they are also known have been used by law enforcement for generations. It has a thick leather outer ... Click to Play!

A small leather pouch with a draw string (filled with coins) is less obvious as a weapon than one of the professionally made coin SAPs, so is the ... Click to Play!

An assessment of the law enforcement officer's leather sap lead filled impact weapon.. Saps are in fact very dangerous weapons.. Leather Saps Blackjacks ... Click to Play!

12-10-2012, 05:56 PM. Southnarc has some blackjack/sap material.. My research of AZ statutes so far is that saps are legal to carry. 13-3101 ... Click to Play!


Who makes good custom leather saps? | gothailand.info


I made a a blackjack using a lead fishing weight, a spring, and a bunch of paracord.. My old one was crafted from leather thongs & looked almost identical to this. and USING blackjacks and/or saps, if deadly force is warranted by an attack!
Just curious. I've got a decent collection of 9 right now, a mix of D3 Protection and Green Man Leather models. I really enjoy them. Throwback...
You mean a "coin purse", for those of us in states where saps are illegal.. It's a piece of lead wrapped in leather that bailiffs use to beat the livin shît out of. What's the difference between a ""sap" and and a "blackjack"?


Handmade Slapjack - AKA "The Persuader!"


Saps, Blackjacks and Slungshots: A History of Forgotten Weapons by Robert Escobar - Book - Read Online Leather blackjacks and saps


Rexer was talking about the sap or blackjack, a rounded leather shell filled with lead powder, lead shot, or a molded weight, with or without a ...
Saps, Blackjacks and Slungshots: A History of Forgotten Weapons [Robert Escobar] on. Hide & Drink, Thick Leather Vintage Coin Purse/Polish Style Wallet, ...
Ada Blackjack Fury Tactical Billy Club Leather Blackjack Impact Weapon with. Handmade Leather Saps Pinterest Law Enforcement Self Defense Leather Sap ...



Texas Brass Knuckles Law - 24hourcampfire


leather blackjacks and saps
Just wondering if anybody has researched the actual legality of carrying blackjacks and saps in AL. I am aware of the reference to "slungshot" ...
I got a bag of bad shot (partially melted and unformed 8 shot) and decided to make a couple three of leather saps. I want to see what you got for ...

leather blackjacks and saps I know Randy Harris among others carries a sap or jack.
Anybody else care to comment on carry and concealing these impact devices?
There are plenty of old threads on how good they work, let's take this in a "currently carries in a CCW role" discussion.
Lots of carryover technique from bladed weapons so I figured I would post here.
Different sizes depending on apparel and IMHO many more options for striking.
Never carried either although I have thought about it.
On one certain occasion I did carry a bandana tied to a lock though.
Yoni, Care to elaborate?
I know you carry an 8" sap in your front pocket and aim for the collarbone, because you have told me https://gothailand.info/blackjack/no-gambling-blackjack.html much via PM, but care to share more?
For EDC I carry the shorty, lightweight in back pocket, works great on dogs as a hold off or finisher.
Wife has the shorty heavy with her most times specifically why a midget sap or junior?
At what point in a confrontation did you access the sap?
I have my own preferences, but want input from fellow members I carry an 8 " SAP in a suit and when I am dress for every day or in a 3rd world country I carry an 11" SAP.
I bought the biggest ASP and took it to Afrika and used it, it didn't have the power that the SAP does.
The ASP just doesn't have the mass needed to get the job done when compared to a SAP.
The biggest mistake ever made in LE world of America was to let the liberal scum take the SAP's away.
I feel so strongly about this that if I had to be a officer again and I had two options; 1.
Haha, when my buddy was in the Police Academy and he got his ASP i was playing with it and noticed it would not hit as hard as a round jack.
He said "Fran, that will stop somebody fine" then he had to use one on a perp, did nothing.
What kind of sap do you use Yoni?
The biggest mistake ever made in LE world of America was to let the liberal scum take the SAP's away.
I can't carry one now that I'm retired where I live, and was prohibited by department policy when I worked, and as they say, more's the pity.
My first introduction to a SAP was at Ga State Prison.
What kind of sap do you use Yoni?
I don't to post an other vendor here in Gabe's house.
Do a google search I am using some cheap ones now in case I need to throw it in a garbage can.
If they give me the go a head, I will post the web page.
Unfortunately, too many wussy politicians have made a concerted effort to ban impact weapons from civilian use.
In my state, carrying any impact weapon concealed is a felony.
And most impact weapons are banned outright.
Our license is a Concealed Pistol License CPL and only allows you to carry a handgun.
With a CPL you can carry a handgun and use it for self defense, but carrying an ASP or a blackjack is a felony.
I also have an 11" sap that will fit in a front coat pocket.
I usually carry one of these, depending on weather and where I'm going.
Both are inexpensive 4-ply models by Boston Leather, and have held up well to all of the practice swings on my punching bag.
Unfortunately, too many wussy politicians have made a concerted effort to ban impact weapons from civilian use.
Impact weapon no I carry my coins in it, my pockets last longer this way.
Get a coin purse sap.
Impact weapon no I carry my coins in it, my pockets last longer this way.
I don't know how well that would go over though.
The closest I can come to that is to carry a bunch of keys in a large key ring.
Getting hit across the face with keys will definitely leave a mark.
Heck, having a baseball bat inside your coat or next to your car seat is considered carrying an illegal concealed weapon in this state.
Truck drivers can get away with carrying a tire bat because they use it as a tool for thumping their tires.
We still have too damned many archaic laws in the books.
I don't to post an other vendor here in Gabe's house.
Do a google search I am using some cheap ones now in case I need to throw it in a garbage can.
If they give me the go a head, I will post the web page.
I don't know how well that would go over though.
The closest I can come to that is to carry a bunch of keys in a large key ring.
Getting hit across the face with keys will definitely leave a mark.
Heck, having a baseball bat inside your coat or next to your car seat is considered carrying an illegal concealed weapon in this state.
Truck drivers can get away with carrying a tire bat because they use it as a tool for thumping their tires.
We still have too damned many archaic laws in the books.
I'm not a big fan of all these little weapons.
Is a smack with a key ring going to stop a determined attacker?
Same with a pen, yeah maybe if you hit him in the eyes.
But what are the odds of that?
I had a friend who had been there done that.
Guys are always talking about eye gouges and nut kicks.
Yeah, if you get them in.
Usually the guys would end up hitting him in the inside of the thigh.
Does it feel good?
Is it a fight stopper?
I'd rather someone carry a big maglight or something like that.
A weapon has to get you more than a good left hook and key rings and pens don't fall into that in my case.
I concur on the coin SAP.
While it may or may not be considered a weapon, an ASP certainly would; and as we have discussed an ASP does not hit as hard as a SAP.
The ASP is all about flash.
Thats why we train to deploy the ASP in a sweeping "Flame On" movement to "bedazzle" the suspects and convince them to surrender before it comes to force.
That may be a good police policy at least some think so ; but its a lousy civilian theory.
A small leather pouch with a draw string filled with coins is less obvious as a weapon than one of the professionally made coin SAPs, so is the lock and bandana.
Neither are "as good"; but certainly better than nothing and much more deniable especially if you loose the lock after use.
I concur on the coin SAP.
While it may or may not be considered a weapon, an ASP certainly would; and as we have discussed an ASP does not hit as hard as a SAP.
The ASP is all about flash.
Thats why we train to deploy the ASP in a sweeping "Flame On" movement to "bedazzle" the suspects and convince them to surrender before it comes to force.
That may be a good police policy at least some think so ; but its a lousy civilian theory.
A small leather pouch with a draw string filled with coins is less obvious as a weapon than one of the professionally made coin SAPs, so is the lock and bandana.
Neither are "as good"; but certainly better than nothing and leather blackjacks and saps more deniable especially if you loose the lock after use.
Two rolls of Quarters in a sock or a lock in a sock.
You can toss them later if you wanted to.
I'm not a big fan of all these little weapons.
Is a smack with a key ring going to stop a determined attacker?
Same with a pen, yeah maybe if you hit him in the eyes.
But what are the odds of that?
I you blackjack 12 vs 2 sorry a friend who had been there done that.
Guys are always talking about eye gouges and nut kicks.
Yeah, if you get them in.
Usually the guys would end up hitting him in the inside of the thigh.
Does it feel good?
Is it a fight stopper?
I'd rather someone carry a big maglight or something like https://gothailand.info/blackjack/live-blackjack-table.html />A weapon has to get you more than a good left hook and key rings and pens don't fall into that in my case.
But when the laws are stacked against you and you need to defend yourself, you have to be able to improvise and Maglites are not always handy to carry around with you.
By inserting the fingers through the key ring and letting the keys dangle free, getting smacked across the face with a bunch of keys will tend to cut the shit out of an attacker's face.
It may not stop him completely, but it would tend to slow him down a bit and give you more time to react.
Two rolls of Quarters in a sock or a lock in a sock.
You can toss them later if you wanted to.
I have been on the receiving end of a "Lock on a Sock" twice.
Try some other spots chest neck.
Just hold the key there with some pressure.
Your friend will move like he was stabbed.
This just for training.
This causes a flinch reaction and they move then you can do other work.
Just my keys officer.
I occasionally carry a 9" blackjack, ALWAYS in a NPE large city setting where a gun would be too much noise.
Not to mention carrying a firearm I'd be much more comfy with alone.
In city setting if you're with friends who aren't going to have the same survival instincts or shall I say severe actions necessary if a gun is brought into play things get more complicated in densely populated areas, with people, security cameras, gunshot noise detectors, etc.
I carry the blackjack AIWB, down the inside of thigh, held by thick wide belt.
In dress slacks and tucked in shirt it goes in front pocket.
Depending on pants it varies but I'll deal with some discomfort for the security.
I recently hiked and biked for miles an NPE area out of state on vacation with the AWIB set-up wearing cargo shorts.
With a tight belt I didn't find it cumbersome.
In winter with GoreTex ski parka the blackjack carries easily in lower inside pocket.
But when the laws are stacked against you and you need to defend yourself, you have to be able to improvise and Maglites are not always handy to carry around with you.
By inserting the fingers through the key ring and letting the keys dangle free, getting smacked across the face with a bunch of keys will tend to cut the shit out of an attacker's face.
It may not stop him leather blackjacks and saps, but cheat sheet dealer blackjack would tend to slow him down a bit and give you more time to react.
You're talking to someone who works in the ultimate American NPE everyday; NYC.
You can now carry pepper spray but honestly i've evaluated a lot of these little biggest blackjack winner and they aren't worth it to me.
If you cut the guys face it may just piss him off and he may want to rip your head off worse.
That won't help me now necessarily.
I rather throw a good hard foot planted one-two than try and cut an attackers face with keys.
Try some other spots chest neck.
Just hold the key there with some pressure.
Your friend will move like he was stabbed.
This just for training.
This causes a flinch reaction and they move then you can do other work.
Just my keys officer.
Depends on the guy.
I used to know this guy who I watched probably one of source best martial arts instructors in the world stick his fingers full power into his jugular notch.
The guy didn't blink or flinch.
This same guy was choked with a bar armed choke and didn't make any uncomfortable motions and just passed leather blackjacks and saps />There are some guys that can just take stuff.
I honestly wouldn't count on pain compliance anything.
You want something that will knock someone out cold or as close to it as possible.
I carry an 8" sap regularly, https://gothailand.info/blackjack/blackjack-wines.html have used it https://gothailand.info/blackjack/blackjack-und-mathematik.html great success over the years.
It is truly an outstanding tool, when used properly.
I carry it IWB -just to my right of the small of my back.
My current carry is the D3 Junior.
If I'm in a rough 'hood with out a pistol, I move it to my right front pocket.
Now would a newfound quartz rock you just found to go with your kid's rock collection be legal to carry in the car, or on your person?
Sorta had to use a rock once actually, back when this dumb kid threatened me with a ball bat oh, maybe 20 years ago or so now.
With a little aim they'll work wonders even if it's just a mild toss.
The ASP ended up in the trash and the SAP I still have many years later, though it's been replaced by a nice disector jack I got from TwinBoysDad.
I ended a fight cleanly with guy who outweighed me by at least 60 pounds with a 10 ounce sap.
I'm sure others have had different experiences, but I once saw an officer hit a man in the head with a sap at least 6 times and it did not stop him.
Sitting in jail a couple of hours later, the man complained of a bad headache, but during the fight, the sap was pretty ineffective.
I've also seen a man hit in the side of the head with an old fashioned full-size night stick and it didn't even slow him down.
However, a strike to the side of his knee with the same baton dropped him.
Targeting is very important with either weapon.
An ASP doesn't have the mass of the old night stick so if you swing it like a club, it doesn't do much.
But with the right wrist action - as taught in Escrima or Kali - the speed at the tip is considerable.
Speed increases force exponentially and can do a lot of damage.
Used against arms, wrists, hands, neck, collar bones, shins, knees, etc.
I also like sap gloves.
They add a little oomph to the punch, protect your knuckles, and leave your hands free for grappling if needed.
Used against arms, wrists, hands, neck, collar bones, shins, knees, etc.
I carried a large sap '11 in my front pocket when I worked uniform retail security never had to use it but it was good to know it was there.
One of the plainclothes store detectives carried a 357 and a junior sap he said he had to use it once or twice and it was very effective.
I also carried an ASP.
I don't have much faith in it.
Mine is stuck in the open position.
I had an awesome sap made as you know twinboysdadbut sold it to randy harris because they're extra illegal in texas : There are only 3 custom sap makers, D3 Protection, Todd Foster, and Greenman Leather.
There are only 2 custom blackjack makers, D3 Protection and Scott Foster.
The "off the shelf" mass produced Boston Leather brand is adequate and rough, and available at most any police distributor.
I cannot comment on Greenman, but D3 Protection d3protection.
I have some D3 saps that can be passed down to my kids.
Avoid the new production JayPee Sluggers like the plague as their quality has become Chinese mfg at best.
It is worth it to go custom if you can just to get brown or oxblood instead of black.
There might be some click to see more maker I have overloked, if so sorry Todd is a craftsman!
I can't even carry them here and thought about getting another custom one from him.
I am going to have to look into the Ontario law for carrying these, I have a feeling they will be as vague as the knife carry laws.
I had an awesome sap made as you know twinboysdadbut sold it to randy harris because they're extra illegal in texas : how do you mean extra illegal?
I come from a place where everything is illegal lol.
I have 3 saps made by Todd, and they are top shelf.
Two large saps and one mini, though I NEVER carry them because they are illegal.
I come from a place where everything is illegal lol.
I mean, some states they're kind of a grey area deal, but here they're actually illegal, not grey whatsoever.
Here's the one Visit web page sold.
They have more than one border problem.
Not including our California bretheren.
Okay with all the talk about Saps, how about some info on how to deploy them, seems like the collarbone is a favorite target.
After reading the responses and looking at some real artwork in lead.
I seem to have an immediate need for the "coin purse" I'm also really enjoying this thread as much as the fact that it is a thread.
Gotta love WT Upfront I will say, the limited physical engagements I have been involved in I have used neither.
I had a "blackjack" waaaaaaaaaay back in the day that made a dirty sock with quarters look like a Ferrari.
When the ASP's came out I saw a tool that could be used as a pretty hefty club while closed.
Use it like a kubaton and jam it up under a chin.
I also don't see where being able to keep more distance and a whip across the temple isn't either a fight ender or at least setting up the opportunity to end it.
Yet, guys posted who have clearly used, had ASP's issued or both.
Causing me to ask "What am I missing?
Like I said, outside of going https://gothailand.info/blackjack/blackjack-arcade-machine.html to the Pilot and whipping a stranger with my ASP.
My heavy-bag looks hurt when I hit him with myASP.
All information will be appreciated.
Google will link you to it.
Also, Don Rearic has the difinitive FAQ on saps and jacks on his website.
I was hoping perhaps Randy Harris might weigh in as well as he is known to favor the tool.
Bottom line, the tool is very uncommon and the training of it is extremely limited.
They are completely illegal here as well.
The only places i know of where they are legal are Indiana and Florida Arizona, Tennessee, and several others as well Yep, TN, carrying a "club" same penalty as carrying a heater without a permit.
There is an exception if you have certified impact weapon training, though.
There is an exception if you have certified impact weapon training, though.
I used to know a guy who carried a jack everywhere in New York leather blackjacks and saps my grandfather did the same.
When everything is a crime certain people stop caring.
If you guys have something that you can work within the law with thats probably the way to go.
Like if I lived in England and I could defend myself with a double barreled shotgun id use that rather than an AR015.
If you have workable options thats probably the way to go.
Over here everything is just illegal.
A little late getting in here.
Let me preface this with saying I am not an attorney and I have not had to defend this in court yet.
It is however an affirmative defense to carrying said club or baton if you have been certified in its use by someone who is certified to certify people in its use.
So what I did along with 5 others in 2006 was to get someone from Monadnock to do a private class to certify us.
Monadnock backs up their TRAINING not the tool.
So if you use a broomstick or a baton or a blackjack Monadnock will back you IF you use it the way they teach.
It does not have to be their baton.
The issue with batons is they are pretty much built to be less than lethal.
They are also intended to be used on large muscle groups green zones and as such they do little damage.
They are pain compliance tools.
Now, CAN you break a bone?
Yes but it is far easier with 10oz of lead wrapped in leather than with a baton.
So with the Jack or the Sap you have a compact impact tool that does not need to be opened.
That is important from a CIVILIAN standpoint.
After all, if you had the time to pull and deploy the baton.
The sap and jack are more suited to "in fight weapon access" and to dealing with REACTIVE problems and problems in a clinch.
I am not in the business of wrestling non compliant suspects into handcuffs.
So if I need an impact weapon I need it NOW, to use,to defend my life not to threaten with.
The blackjack is simply devastating.
The "whip" of the spring works like your hip works to amp up the power of a punch.
You need to be careful about using the jack.
It is pretty easy to kill someone with it if you get a little carried away.
The Sap is generally a little "safer".
Using it like a knife striking with the thin side not the flat side of the head you can still disassemble people, but since there is no "spring action" to it, the damage is not as much.
Both tools magnify your ability to strike, but the sap does not do the same amount of damage as easily as a jack does.
As to what I like not that you asked.
I have a Boston Leather "Junior" that has a lot of miles on it.
Get the 4 ply.
They are more robust than the 2 ply.
I also have a pretty cool one made by Todd Foster about the same size that has a pocket clip and a "skull and crossbones" stamped into the head.
I also have a D3 Duster.
A large piece for Concealed Carry, but cool nonetheless.
As far as blackjacks go I like the Scott Foster Todd's brother "Porrada" Black Link />It is a little smaller than their "normal " one and a bit stiffer.
You can "stab " with it and still get someone's attention.
I also have one of his "bull" jacks.
A very heavy head on a very thin spring.
Imagine 10oz of lead on a 5" whip.
The thing a sap or jack has that a blade does not is the kinetic energy.
You may or may not know you've been stabbed or cut.
The blade cuts through tissue and may not be felt depending on how sharp it is.
There is no question when 8-12 oz of lead hits you.
That is hardcore blunt impact trauma.
That is 8oz half a pound or a 3500 grain "bullet " striking you.
You are probably delivering over 1200 lbs of energy.
Hit someone in the head and that is "dirt nap" time.
Obviously they are not legal everywhere.
So do your homework.
If it is legal where you are then it might be a tool you want to look into.
If it is not.
Make your own decisions.
It is not a magic talisman.
It is simply another tool that allows you to strike far harder than you can with just empty hands.
I mean, some states they're kind of a grey area deal, but here they're actually illegal, not grey whatsoever.
Here's the one I sold.
Happy it went to a good home!
Pissed Texas has some gay weapon laws!
I'm only familiar with our knife and gun laws.
NOT Johnnyrebel, but JR moved from AL where saps are kinda not cool but more misdemeanor to TX where saps and blackjacks are a felony to carry.
Going back to Randy Harris' post and elaborating.
The weight you can get away with for EDC is around 10 oz give or take.
A blackjack of 6 or 7 oz is MORE than enough.
A D3 minijack or Foster repro of a Bucheimer 7982 is all the jack you need.
The forc is that great.
A sap is very different.
A midget sap at 10 oz is about perfect for efficacy vs concealment.
A junior that is the next size up is the "Mary Poppins" of saps practically perfect in every way.
Tougher to conceal but the leverage is overwhelming.
Pipedreams, a friend, has used his D3 jr and told me that it never doesn't work and it seems to be the perfect non-lethal but eficacous sap Has anyone seen those Sap hats?
They have lead shot sewed in.
As far as legality goes, it may fall under the Sap laws, but may be worth checking into for some.
Plus, no worries about concealing.
Noone will look twice at a hat.
All I carry now is a couple knives and a Glock, and a comtech stinger.
I carried my sap iwb using the clip.
I still carry my old Bucheimer Texan on occasion.
I've been told blackjacks and saps are illegal in Missouri with no reference and I haven't found anything in MO Revised Statutes, so I'm treating it like an urban legend till proven otherwise It look like permit holders are exempt.
A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: 1 Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or but if you read further down.
Subdivisions 18and 10 of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.
I've even had different LEOs tell me both that they're legal and illegal for CCWs.
So by my interpretation it's generally illegal, unless you're a permit holder.
Apparently goes back to the unions trying to get OK workforce to unionize https://gothailand.info/blackjack/what-are-blackjack-mercenary.html the slungshot being a teamster weapon of choice?
Oklahoma law specifically mentions blackjacks, but not saps.
I'm not any sort of a legal expert but in reality a sap is a blackjack.
Years ago on another defunct forum I remember one of the moderators making a good point which i find to be true.
I was guilty of it!
We want to carry a particular tool so badly that we try and find any tiny thing that we can backwards rationalize as a "gray area" to justify carrying that tool.
The reality is we're probably deluding ourselves and will get jammed up.
Apparently goes back to the unions trying to get OK workforce to unionize and the slungshot being a teamster weapon of choice?
Michigan is the same way.
I can possess a rifle, a shotgun or handgun.
I can possess a machinegun, an AOW or a silencer with proper ATF approval.
I can open carry a rifle, a shotgun or a handgun without any sort of license.
I can conceal carry only a handgun with my CPL.
But the mere possession of ".
Oklahoma law specifically mentions blackjacks, but not saps.
Well here's the OK text: §21-1272.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed I suspect that a SAP will be treated the same as a blackjack, so possession of a SAP is also a felony.
Yeah, it's screwy here.
I had a lawyer tell me that a sap would fall under bludgeon.
Even them nice little monkey fists for key chains can get you jammed up.
Some liberal politician's kid was mouthing off, looking to start a fight and someone sap'd him and it was continue reading />Made him look like an idiot, possibly sent him to the hospital.
That's what I'd guess.
People hate it when one person can decisively end the discussion.
I have a feeling that within their own realm they are quite decisive.
Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2 Well here's the OK text: §21-1272.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed Yep.
Alan Gura has a video on youtube where talks about the origin of NY's martial arts laws.
Not one had ever been used in the commision of a crime.
It was literally done because of the popularity of Bruce Lee Movies so the politicians thought kids would run around with nunchauks hitting people!
There should be a law!
I had a friend who had been there done that.
Guys are always talking about eye gouges and nut kicks.
Yeah, if you get them in.
Usually the guys would end up hitting him in the inside of the thigh.
Does it feel good?
Is it a fight stopper?
I'd rather someone carry a big maglight or something like that.
A weapon has to get you more than a good left hook and key rings and pens don't fall into that in my case.
I think this touches on two or three things: 1 Anytime you go anything smaller than a rifle you're making sacrifices for something other than "stopping power".
I mean, given unrestricted choice who do you know who would like to go into a fight without the biggest weapons they https://gothailand.info/blackjack/blackjack-prohormone.html use well and preferably several similarly armed buddies.
With pocket guns, smaller blades, weapons of opportunity, covert weapons, less lethal weapons etc we're making carry choices based on something other than "what is the most efficient high percentage killer of my enemy?
Unfortunately carrying around a FAL or something similarly large with us all the time is often impractical for many folks I doubt even Gabe carries that big all the time, although he's commented often that he has the big stuff within easy reach fairly oftenso we have to make sacrifices of what is best for what is practical.
Saps may not be "fight enders" in unskilled hands, but I've heard enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that in skilled hands backed up by the right mindset lethality is possible with everything from a bic pen, the heavy spine of a book, saps, blackjacks, even ASPs.
Contact weapons generally crush, stab, cut, or strangle so anything that can be pressed into service in those roles can be made to do.
It may not be the best weapon, but see my above comment about what is just click for source vs.
https://gothailand.info/blackjack/classic-blackjack-chart.html, there're people out there who can take some stiff fingers right into the clavicular notch and not bat an eye.
You may or may not be fighting them, but to me basing your entire set of options on fighting an outlier is as narrow minded as basing your entire set of options on not fighting one.
I was carrying a Sap with me during that time cheap flea market beavertail model and he asked to see it.
After inspecting it he then went out to his car and brought back his "thumper".
It was basically a stiff heavy spring about 10-11" long that he had taken and dipped the head into molten lead multiple times.
He then wrapped the whole thing in a few layers of electrical tape and had some grip tape on top of that around the bottom for the handle.
He was chuckling when he asked me if I wanted to go "shot for shot" with him.
Since I have the mental capacity to type this you can probably guess my answer.
Got passed to me about 4 years ago, farmore effective than an ASP wow Coastalcop, that 31 year old sap just oozes character.
Bet is could tell some stories, thanks for sharing any if you care to!
Thanks for starting this thread.
Great information and comments guys, I've learned a lot I had no clue about.
Thanks for starting this thread.
Great information and comments guys, I've learned a lot I had no clue about.
Glad some folks have enjoyed the thread, I am curious to know if anyone has ever used a Surefire E2D Dfender as an impact tool.
My last Mitch Rosen Gun Leather catalog didn't have any saps in it, but there was this Applied Psychology Paddle that looked awfully useful.
Glad some folks have enjoyed the thread, I am curious to know if anyone has ever used a Surefire E2D Dfender as an impact tool.
I carry one, but haven't used it to mess up anyone's day.
I think this touches on two or three things: 1 Anytime you go anything smaller than a rifle you're making sacrifices for something other than "stopping power".
I mean, given unrestricted choice who do you know who would like to go into a fight without the biggest weapons they can use well and preferably several similarly armed buddies.
With pocket guns, smaller blades, weapons of opportunity, covert weapons, less lethal weapons etc we're making carry choices based on something other than "what is the most efficient high percentage killer of my enemy?
Unfortunately carrying around a FAL or something similarly large with us all the time is often impractical for many folks I doubt even Gabe carries that big all the time, although he's commented often that he has the big stuff within easy reach click to see more oftenso we have to make sacrifices of what is best for what is practical.
Saps may not be "fight enders" in unskilled hands, but I've heard enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that https://gothailand.info/blackjack/should-you-take-insurance-when-you-have-blackjack.html skilled hands backed up by the right mindset lethality is possible with everything from a bic pen, the heavy spine of a book, saps, blackjacks, even ASPs.
Contact weapons generally crush, stab, cut, or strangle so anything that can be pressed into service in those roles can be made to do.
It may not be the best weapon, but see my above comment about what is best vs.
Yep, there're people out there who can take some stiff fingers right into the clavicular notch and not bat an eye.
You may or may not be fighting them, but to me basing your entire set of options on fighting an outlier is as narrow minded as basing your entire set of options on not fighting one.
I was carrying a Sap with me during that time cheap flea market beavertail model and he asked to see it.
After inspecting it he then went out to his car and brought back his "thumper".
It was basically a stiff heavy spring about 10-11" long that he had taken and dipped the head into molten lead multiple times.
He then wrapped the whole thing in a few layers of electrical tape and had some grip tape on top of that around the bottom for the handle.
He was chuckling when he asked me if I wanted to go "shot for shot" with him.
Since I have the mental capacity to type this you can probably guess my more info />I have a bicycle inner tube knotted and filled with 13 oz of shot doubled over and duct taped.
It sits on top of my frig in case of the unwanted house guest.
WT member and retired LASD "Guantes" always said he did not use the straps on saps or jacks anyway so I never did either except on a midget model sap and the clip gives you a bunch of options to hide the tool.
I talked with "Pipedreams" about the trade off of concealability midget size vs efficacy junior size and up and figured if I am going IWB vs back pocket the extra 2 inched are worth it.
Check out the pic for a pocket clip sap 3 There's always going to be outliers that don't generally adhere to the normal reactions of 90% or more of the populace.
Yep, there're people out there who can take some stiff fingers right into the clavicular notch and not bat an eye.
You may or may not be fighting them, but to me basing your entire set of options on fighting an outlier is as narrow minded as basing your entire set of options on not fighting one.
Working in bars for 17yrs, I literally cannot count the number of times I've used a wrist or joint lock on an genuinely non compliant opponent, well over 100 times.
Always had the expected results, even if resistance meant a transition of some sort.
One night, another bartender asked me to show him some basic holds.
And it's not like my buddy was showing off or faking.
I'll always be glad I had that learning experience, even more so that it was in a relaxed training environment.
Have a plan and then have a plan for it not working.
WT member and retired LASD "Guantes" always said he did not use the straps on saps or jacks anyway so I never did either except on a midget model sap and the clip gives you a bunch of options to hide the tool.
I talked with "Pipedreams" about the trade off of concealability midget size vs efficacy junior size and up and figured if I am going IWB vs back pocket the extra 2 inched are worth it.
Check out the pic for a pocket clip sap That looks sweet, bro.
Let me know how you like the clip -it might work well for my style of carry, too.
Nothing beats a tire thumper.
Rooster, I agree, that is why I do not attach myself to any tool, be it a sap strap, kerambit knife, or "koppo" flashlite.
This was advice given by WT member "Guantes" who carried saps and jacks for years on duty and said they never "leashed up".
I just placed an order with David at D3 Protection for a saddle tan, wood grain embossed, copper riveted, with black powdercoat clip no strap.
I'm a fan of saps, but this will be my first high quality one.
Will most likely get a couple more from him after this.
The craftsmanship from the pics I have seen looks super.
I'll have to post a pic in 3 weeks or so when it arrives.
Some time back, One Source Tactical sold some top shelf blackjacks.
They should bring them back.
I have never seen a sap made out of 550 cord.
Gabe used to carry them at OST, but now I don't see them listed.
It has a good strong spring and is very well made.
I grew with stories about how effective they are from old lawmen.
The guy who made the OST blackjacks used to be a member here.
He fancied himself as a custom knife-maker but got his feelings hurt or something or another and left.
Before they disappeared, I got a jack wrapped in blue and black kangaroo hide.
It's the one on the bottom in this pic of my small collection.
I think the core of it is a stout metal coil spring mated with a socket wrench head.
Let me again direct you to D3 Protection for a real LEAD weighted sap OR blackjack.
On the website d3protection.
No badmouthing the above paracord, but D3 makes them just like Bucheimer did when these things were common police tools.
Earlier in the discussion, someone mentioned the Comtech Stinger.
Seems like should be an effective and convenient impact weapon to me, but there's NOTHING like experience and I'm always willing to learn from them what have it.
I've broken one of the light ASP batons.
I've never broken a sap.
Worked as a bouncer for a few years and loved my sap gloves, it was a rare drunk that needed more than a tap.
As to how I carry my sap when I'm off duty - support side hip pocket.
Earlier in the discussion, someone mentioned the Comtech Stinger.
Seems like should be an effective and convenient impact weapon to me, but there's NOTHING like experience and I'm always willing to learn from them what have it.
I would like to know this myself; actual uses of the Stinger check this out is.


Paracord blackjack


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Saps, Blackjacks and Slungshots: A History of Forgotten Weapons [Robert Escobar] on. Hide & Drink, Thick Leather Vintage Coin Purse/Polish Style Wallet, ...


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